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Kixforms now ships as MSI !
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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

masken, you are still saying that average admin is that way out there that he can't put up an msi package.
it's so elementary stuff...

anyways, for those who want, lets make an msi installer, but make it proper.
have you seen any ms product ship with msi and normal?
no, the msi is made the normal.
and then it has switches and means of controlling it.
I say, broaden your thoughts on what is practical and wise instead of staring the world as you see it now. did I say it's almost round?

and, no.
you don't need to unreg the old one.
the msi takes care of it.

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masken
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read again. I'm not saying the average admin can or can't do this or that, you're missing the point by a longshot.
Quote:
not all of us are interested in manually scripting and customizing applications for deployment. I even think most see that as an exception, not a standard.


As you say, MSI is the standard format for most products nowadays. That's why KiXforms also should be released as this. The MSI format also has a standard set of switches which of course should be supported if they're not. In this case though, it's just a single DLL so it would be rather pointless except for the silent switch perhaps. When you publish through AD or SMS though, the packages are always installed in silent mode.

Pushing the documentation isn't very optimal or even very thought through if you ask me, as the documentation in this case is purely for admins and coders only, that makes the scripts that users should be able to use. It's for developers only. It would be like pushing the source code with every application you install - pointless.
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Les
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

masken wrote:
It would be like pushing the source code with every application you install - pointless.

Kinda like pushing out the Adobe SDK when all you want is the Reader.

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masken
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, better one, was running out of metaphors... Wink
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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, you may see it as pointless but I bet almost everyone who downloads the msi from here is "kixforms developer"
thus, it is not pointless at all.
with the manual then, that developer, a noob or advanced can get started with the crap.
now, the manual says you only need the dll, not the msi, and then the developer, that famous one, can make his own package with his script and the dll, if he wishes so.
or even the msi as it has switch for /m as in minimum setup that only installs the dll.

and that brings back the average admin, who only needs /u and that /m

or yet better, /u defaults to only installing the dll.

anyway, the manual is essential part of the kixforms package and can't be left out of the installer just because some admin things it's not usefull inside of it.

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Les
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lonkero wrote:
I bet almost everyone who downloads the msi from here is "kixforms developer"...

That's a pretty lame argument. Of course our end users would not be expected to download the MSI from kforg, so what exactly is your point?

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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol.
no, you is lame :p

obviously, it's an answer to his lame argument that not everyone needs documentation.
almost everyone downloading the msi from here, most likely need the documentation.
thus, your reply is lame as you clearly didn't read the whole topic.

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benny69
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that there are couple of good points being made here:

1) Be able to use the .msi for installs thru GPOís (for the adminís)
This I think can be handled with the switches that are already apart of the .msi on the most part (silent mode).

2) Have the .chm as apart of the install for the developers (this is nice but not necessary for the seasoned user of KiXforms).

The Adminís and Developers alike are going to do every thing a little different, some will use the .chm, some will use the Online help, some will use the GPOís, some will use regsvr32.

But I think we are all forgetting the reason that this forum exists, and that is so we can work together to come up with great new ideas, share those ideas and bring new users into the fold. I know the first time I tried to used KiXforms.dll I was very frustrated tiring to figure out how to get it to work. Yes the instructions on how to install KiXforms.dll was in the .chm but with other software I was use to being able just to install something and have it work. With the .msi it will be easier for the new person to get started if we give them all the tools they need to get started. Those things are:

Install the .dll for them

Supply the .chm (w/shortcut)

Give them shortcuts to this forum and the Online help.

If we can work out a silent install for the adminís then we have covered all the bases.

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Last edited by benny69 on Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, exactly like that...
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Les
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

benny69 wrote:
If we can work out a silent install for the adminís them we have covered all the bases.

I assume by that you mean a bare-bones, DLL only silent install to push via GPO to the clients.

I always figured that if developers/admins were too dumb to install it on their own PC, they deserve to suffer their own stupidity, but I will concede to Ben's point. If Shawn is generous enough to make a MSI that does both, then at least some noobs will have a better OOB experience.

The original request was for the middle-of-the-road admin that can install the DLL on his own PC and can even figure out that the DL includes a CHM, but lacks the time or knowledge to make their own bare-bones MSI to roll it out to the clients. If Shawn is to build a MSI that does everything to please everyone, then it is a bonus. Beggers can't be choosers.

P.S. I did read the whole thread

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Sealeopard
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually do have to agree to the need of a bare-bones MSI package to silently install just the KiXforms DLL via GPOs. Then again, I'd like to see that with the KiXtart executable as well. Not every admin has the ability to create his/her own MSI package just for the rollout of KiXtart or KiXforms.
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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what happened to the MSI?
downloaded latest dev but only got the dll.


and where do I get this pre alpha kixforms.net?
I've herd there might be a alpha testers around...

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Radimus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea... where is the damn MSI Very Happy
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Shawn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright already damn it - the damn msi is back in the damn dev. build ;0)

-Shawn

[luv you both]
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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

k, can it finally unreg too?

I had to do some manual unregs to get kf version x.x reinstalled.
and that's a pain.

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