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KIXforms WIKI? (please vote!)
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What do you think about an open KIXforms-docu-WIKI?
Great! When do we start?
88%
 88%  [ 8 ]
I like it, but wouldn't participate.
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
I think it isn't a good idea, because...
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 9

Author Message
therob
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: KIXforms WIKI? (please vote!) Reply with quote

Hi,

first off, kixforms is great! Its not only the salt in the Kixtart-soup,
its bunch of new flavours! Smile A great job by shawn (is it just him, btw?)

Anyway, with so much light, there has to be some shadow somewhere.
And imho in this case it's the docu. Its not bad, but i always felt it
could be better. Plus, there are still some empty entries in the chm
and sometimes its even a little bit like a treasure hunt. By trying out
properties or just browsing the forums i keep finding undocumented
features... Wink

Sooo, i thought this is the perfect candidate for a WIKI. With an open
documentation plattform, everyone (or just registered experts if
necessary) could make additions and add example scripts.
And with such a high number of qualified, cooperatively and helpful
people like here in the forums we could make a perfect docu in no time
and without much effort.

Last time i checked, there were a few good open-source wikis out there
especially for this purpose.

So what ya think?

cheers, therob


Last edited by therob on Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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masken
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a wonderful idea Smile It's a way for others to contribute to shawn's excellent work and also let him focus on delevopment instead.

The same should be done with KiXtart really, as the only good documentation today relies upon a single company which updates as they see fit.
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benny69
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is a grand idea, and I would be glad to contribute what I can.
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Rod
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seriously thought of implementing a Wiki on KFO for a couple of years now, especially as we setup and use one at work to great effect. If I have any concerns then it is more security and vandalism related, rather than the technology itself. A Wiki would require some serious moderation and although people have a tendency to be very excited about something at the start, interest soon evaporates. Lets see how this thread plays out and take it from there.

Rod.

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Jochen
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with you there Rod,
it may get a wonderful thing, it may went against the next wall .. We'll never know if we don't start things.

As for the moderation, I don't think that it'll be a big deal. At least in the early phase Wink
On the other side a moderator will gain knowledge for no cost else than his time... the more I think about it the more I like the idea... I would volunteer if someone asked me Cunning

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therob
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not so fast please, jochen. Smile The whole point of a wiki is that its not moderated. You can limit it to registered users, but if you moderate the articles its again just one or two persons who have to look all over the stuff. So we could as well leave it as it is.

But i dont really share your fears ... because, what could we loose? I dont see any vandals around here. Who registers is interested in kixforms.
Plus, in a wiki, all changes get stored, so if someone really messes around, the old state is just a click away.

The only thing that could really happen is that not many people participate.
So? Again, what could we loose? If Shawn agrees, we could copy the current docu as a basis into the wiki. So in the worst case we had some effort with the copying and the same docu in the wiki. Smile But i'm sure if people say so here, they will write their findings and samples in there.

As i see it, in the 'worst case' we stuck with the current docu (which isnt really bad), but in the best case we get a much better one.
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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe for kixforms it might work...
but, thinking about kf .net here, it has the docs written inside the sourcecode itself, so after all, it would be down to 1-2 persons doing the docs anyways.

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Les
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

therob wrote:
I dont see any vandals around here.

There have been a few spammers register on this board. If you have an unmoderated WIKI then there will have to be much tighter controls on registration.

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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm...
there are the forum groups... wonder if they could be used as the source for authentication.
this way, it would not be too simple to get to the editing grew and the groups can be set to moderated, so only regulars may become writers or so.

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Jochen
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,

as always, moderation will be established when it becomes a necessity.
But first things first. Will there be a WIKI or not?
I guess Rod will have the last word...

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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

will be?
well, at least moderation support needs to be in the product.
it's little hard trying to force moderation afterwards when the wiki doesn't even support it.

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Rod
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the Wiki idea certianly seems to be generating interest. In response to a few points raised so far.

Up until a year ago there were very few incidents of spammers registering on this board, however times have changed for all bulletin board admins. At one point I was having approx 10 spammers a day registering just to get their WWW link published on the Memberlist. Although this number has been reduced drastically by IP blocking, enabling Admin activation and other measures, it has only come about by active moderation. I'm sure some people think that this board just runs itself, believe me it doesn't. I am here every day in the background making sure that this remains a quality resource for all to use.

A Wiki could certainly be a geat feature for KFO and if there weren't "individuals" intent on using whatever means possible to peddle their filthy wares then I would have implemented it in a heartbeat. The reality is that most Wiki's have relatively poor security controls that do not integrate with existing user DBs. That said, I will do some research as to what is available now and come back to you soon. In the meantime let the discussion continue Wink

Rod.

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therob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok i still think one should give it a try without moderation, but if it has to be, how about: Users can only register if they made at least one useful post in the forum?
But please keep in mind that this only works if enough people particiate and if you make it to diffucult to do that, people simply won't. A wiki is different than a forum because you dont get any virtual reward for your work.

I would leave it as open as possible as see how it goes, because as said in a wiki its as easy to restore an article as it is to spam. Wikipedia is very huge and it works very good even without any form of registration.

Btw. :here's a good comparison-chart of a lot of wiki's with their features:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software
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Lonkero
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand how it could be so hard...

if user is active poster, then he can join the wiki group.
then he can post.

there is no moderation yet in that. and that alone does remove 99,9% of the bad ones.
the rest can be hand picked and blocked just fine.

if the moderation for the wiki editors be added, the joining of group can be made moderated.
it's enough for a forum mod to see that a person has a post or two and has something useful to say and bang, he is in.

that certainly won't limit the wiki editors that really wanna participate.

anyways, like someone already pointed out, this most likely won't fly as there will be maybe 2-3 active editors in the end.
on the other side, that's better than the current number of 0 Smile

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masken
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think a WIKI should be connected to any forum at all. Its a different product, with it's own technology.

Like mentioned, a WIKI relies upon its contributors and its viewers. The technology to control contents is already in the software, and shouldn't be linked to any ohter resources.

I also really don't see the connection to spammers. Different boards has had vulnerabilities so that automated bots generate advertising/spam on exploitable boards. This has absolutely nothing to do with WIKI's, even though WIKI's themselves might have their own exploits.

So my suggestion is, keep these two things apart. Setup security on the WIKI with the WIKI's tools. Keep the board(s) out of there, and use the WIKI like it's ment to be used (ie, let go of your potential control needs Wink).

I also think that using a WIKI the way it's meant to be used will bring the most good content to it.
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