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Lighter/Easier version of Kixforms.Net
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Shawn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Lighter/Easier version of Kixforms.Net Reply with quote

Guys,

I considering creating (yet another) version of Kixforms.Net ... this time with a difference - this new one would be much (much) lighter, in terms of syntax - would be more like Kixforms classic library.

I get the feeling that the current Kixforms.Net library is too difficult to understand - and the learning curve from classic to .net is to high.

This new library would would be almost a straight port of the current classic library - to .Net (with all the lessons learned over the years factored in).

Anybody have any thoughts on this ?

-Shawn
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Jochen
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have to start even looking into kixforms.net Embarassed
[though my learning curve should be not that high]

My thoughts on the subject:

Isn't that too much to handle for you, I mean 3 instead of 2 different construction sites?

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Shawn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To many ? Nah ...

I thought this new one could be a convergence of kf classic and kf.net into something very cool and easy to use. With kf.net, I think i may have tried to hard to stay 100% .Net compatible - at the expense of ease of use.

If there is one thing I have learned so far - if it aint easy to use, it won't get used - no matter how powerfull or compatible something is.
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Stevie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If KF.NET is not getting used because its syntax is too unwieldy (which I'm not sure is necessarily the case, but for sake of argument we'll say that it is), then moving to 3 versions would be a mistake. IMHO, if you want to remake KF.NET then just rip off the bandage and do it. So you'll still have two versions but with similar syntax. This makes more sense then supporting three versions, which will end up getting real confusing for everyone, you and us.

I have two theories as to why KF.NET hasn't created the groundswell that KF classic has:


  • People simply arent aware of the benefits of KF.NET. If there were a list in people's faces to say "These are the extras that you'll get with KF.NET" then I think if those features were something that people wanted they would upgrade.
  • Not all environments have adopted .NET on the workstation builds. This is progressively a weak argument as time goes by since .NET adoption is quite widespread in MS-based shops but probably still holds true for some.


If these are the reasons then changing the syntax won't really result in a more widespread usage of kf.net. What you may want to try is a trial .net version that uses the old syntax and if it gets a lot more play than the current .net version then dump the current one. Otherwise, keep the current one and dump the trial.

In any event, my vote would be for just two versions.
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Last edited by Stevie on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jochen
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I for one can say that the first feeling I had when launching the first kf.net sample script was like running a java application.
It took almost 20 seconds to even show the form Shocked

Don't know if this is better in the mean time but this could get a show stopper imo.

Oh and, the syntax is not that big problem (for me at least), so I vote for either the one or the other option, but not 3 different things, just like Stevie

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Shawn
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah Steve ... you know that old skit where someone has an angel and a devil on their shoulder, and their arguing about doing something bad or naughty - you have always been my Shoulder Angel ...

Jochen - agreed about the performance ...
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Stevie
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even as part of your conscience, it just feels good to contribute. Does that make Les the devil? Shocked
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Last edited by Stevie on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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masken
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most are under the impression that it's still too much of a beta-product to use in a production environment. I know I am.

If it's not, then the "beta-label" must be washed off and the product should be advertised better on the main page and be in focus everywhere, then scripters will start using it! Smile I don't think KiX:ers will have problems using the .NET version as it is, and I also think that setting up yet another version will only cause confusion.

Change the forum and make it for the ".NET"-version. Move the non-.net version down in the forum and call it "KiXforms Classic" or whatever.
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benny69
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think masken has a point, might be a good idea to expand the forums for .net to include starters, advanced,.. and i think that .net is ready to move out of the alpha stage.

and i think more importantly, Thank You for all of your hard work with kf2 and kf3, or maybe even better put by someone we all know, 'KiXforms Pimps My Scripts'.

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Shawn
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think .Net is "nearly almost" ready to move out of the Alpha stage ... there are still some major things I want to change ... I would not call it Beta until these changes are made.

I will open-up another thread to discuss these changes.
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Radimus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only reason I haven't messed with kf.net, is that every few days you had a new build. I just didn't want to mess with it while you were still improving it. (and I have kf.dll deployed into production)

Once you get a good beta or release going, I'll start working it more.

Of course, I wouldn't mind a new update to the classic either Smile
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Floyd
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as an "enduser" of kf, I would like to have/see more power to kf classic.

I found .net release too heavy. The performance is much lower then the kf classic. The syntax is another issue
Donít get me wrong, Iím not against changes and new things.
But I simply just donít jump on new things, just only because they're new.

I feel that three version could be too much. It could make endusers like me really confused, and probably you have to put more time just to answers our stupid questions...
Laughing

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masken
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Floyd, I'm convinced this is a time-limited migration issue Smile It took me some time to get the hang of KiXforms, but once the threshold was climbed, it was just basic KiX:ing most of the time Smile

@shawn, where's that thread?! Wink
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jooel
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Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, for me kf.net was so complex and slow that it dragged me totally away from scripting for a while.

starting to feel like classic is the way to go no matter how pimp'ish .net sounds

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pearly
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

masken wrote:
I think most are under the impression that it's still too much of a beta-product to use in a production environment. I know I am.

If it's not, then the "beta-label" must be washed off and the product should be advertised better on the main page and be in focus everywhere, then scripters will start using it! Smile I don't think KiX:ers will have problems using the .NET version as it is, and I also think that setting up yet another version will only cause confusion.

Change the forum and make it for the ".NET"-version. Move the non-.net version down in the forum and call it "KiXforms Classic" or whatever.


I agree with masken. I haven't messed around with .NET too much because of its alpha stage. Once it moves to beta or better yet release candidate, I will start using it more and taking advantage of its powerful features. Most of the small apps I create need to get pushed for production, so at this point in time, I cannot use the KiXforms .NET.
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